….IT’S POSSIBLE THAT WE MAY FIND POINTS FOR PRACTICALCOOPERATION”: DANIEL GARCÍA PEÑA
By Patricia Lara Salive, CAMBIOColombia, January 19, 2025
(Translated by Eunice Gibson, CSN Volunteer Translator)
On the eve of President-elect Trump’s inauguration, Daniel García Peña, Colombia’s Ambassador to Washington, is interviewed by Patricia Lara Salive, and talks about the prospects that emerge in this new stage of the relationship between Colombia and the United States.
Daniel García Peña, a historian at Belmont College in North Carolina, is Professor of Political Science at the National University, and of History at the University of the Andes, a longtime leftist militant, but also the Peace Commissioner in the Ernesto Samper administration, Director of Planeta Paz, an NGO based in Bogotá, and the International Relations Director for the city of Bogotá when Gustavo Petro was Mayor, and has now vaulted to Colombia’s Embassy in Washington. All the same, he had never imagined that it would be up to him to take charge of the relationship between the government of this country and the United States, starting Monday, January 20, along with Republican President Donald Trump, right now one of the most notable critics of the left.
CAMBIO: You have been a militant of the left for so many years—did you ever imagine that it might be up to you to manage Colombia’s relationship with a President like Trump?
Daniel García Peña: To tell the truth, this wasn’t something I planned on. But so many years dedicated to the study of relations between Colombia and the United States have given me what I think will be useful in the time that I spend as Ambassador.
CAMBIO: The new Secretary of State for the United States will be none other than the Republican, Marco Rubio, an obsessive critic of anything that smells leftist. How do you think the relationship will be between Colombia and the State Department beginning this Monday the 20th when the Trump administration takes over?
D.G.: Independent of what his performance as a Senator might have been, Marco Rubio has an immense responsibility as Secretary of State, and the fact is that there is a very strong and multidimensional relationship that has been building for decades. Now we are working on very diverse issues like security, defense, commerce, environment, and culture, so that in the end, it’s a relationship we’ll be continuing, with the conviction that that benefits not only the United States, but also Colombia. What we need is to find those areas of possible cooperation, so as to continue strengthening the binational relationship.
CAMBIO: And given that the Secretary of State is Rubio, who has been obsessed with the subject of Cuba, how do you think relations with Latin America, including countries like Nicaragua and Cuba itself, are going to be like?
D.G.: Marco Rubio is familiar with the region, and in that sense, it’s positive that we have a person who has that. I don’t want to start speculating about what he might do or not do. I repeat, being Secretary of State is very different from being a Senator, but the role Colombia plays in this area is fundamental for the interests of the United States in aspects of a different nature. In the area of migration, for example, which is the main issue between Latin America and the United States right now, Colombia has played a very important role as an ally—and continues to do so. We’re going to continue working with the United States in the same way as we have done in prior decades. And let’s not forget that there have been changes, and let’s not forget that there has also been a change here in Washington. For example, Plan Colombia was negotiated with Bill Clinton’s Democratic administration, and then later came George Bush’s Republican administration, and following that, Barack Obama’s Democratic administration. Then came Donald Trump’s first administration, and now it’s the end of Joe Biden’s Democratic administration and a return to a Republican administration. And so with the changes in the United States administrations, Colombia has had changes too. We went from Uribe to Santos, from Santos to Duque, and from Duque to Petro. And nevertheless, in spite of those changes, the bilateral relationship has been maintained, and even more, it has been strengthened and has evolved to confront the challenges in both countries.
CAMBIO: Since you mentioned the subject of migration, along with Latin America and the whole world, we are waiting to see what measures Trump will take in regard to this issue. He has said that he plans to expel millions of immigrants. How is the country going to deal with that?
D.G.: There’s no doubt it’s the subject of the most expectations and concerns among Colombians and of all the Latinos living in the United States. It’s true that on the subject of immigration, Colombia is not in first place for numbers living in the United States. There are approximately 800,000 Colombians living undocumented in the United States, out of a total of 13 million illegals. But we are preparing ourselves and working with the Colombian consulates. We have strengthened social and legal assistance so that we can provide our nationals with information about their rights.
On the other hand, Colombia’s position on the migration issue is very important. We fully recognize the fact that our country has accepted nearly 3 million migrants and Venezuelans in our territory. They are people that are not trying to reach the United States, and therefore the UnitedStates sees our country as a model for the way to work in a collaborative manner. We have managed, for example, working with Panama and the United States, to reduce the flow of people through the Darien gap by 40% last year. Or you could say, I repeat, Colombia sees itself as part of the solution, not part of the problem. This country has always said that it’s very willing to receive Colombians that are in the United States in an irregular situation and are being deported. In fact, there have been daily flights of deportees throughout all of President Biden’s administration, and in that sense, there won’t be anything new; maybe the numbers might increase, but we’re preparing for that eventuality.
CAMBIO: What do you think will be the Trump administration’s attitude toward the Maduro regime? He had a very tough position in his first administration; he supported Guaidó and imposed severe economic sanctions on Venezuela. But now, he wouldn’t receive Edmundo González, and the Republican Senator Bernie Moreno has said that Trump would work with Maduro because they would have to resolve the repatriation of Venezuelans. And that the United States wants Venezuela to stop doing business with Russia and China and do business instead with the United States, and after that they could discuss a free and fair election monitored by the international community. What’s your opinion?
D.G.: Those are all different versions of what’s come out in the media and they’re part of an unknown quantity. It’s really not clear what the position of the new administration will be. Even in the Colombian media there was a recent item that was also collecting what the United States was saying about what was being discussed by different sectors close to Trump. Some of those were more for the hard line of increasing the pressure on the Maduro regime, and others, like Senator Moreno, are on the side that’s for reaching an agreement. Trump himself has said that he could resolve the matter directly with Maduro. But that is an unknown. I think that the two formulas are not necessarily mutually exclusive. What does have to be emphasized is that in these recent times and on different subjects—like the negotiations for the hostages in Gaza—there has been ongoing consultation between the outgoing and incoming administrations, so that the decision by President Biden in recent weeks must certainly have been in consultation with the Trump administration, and they will undoubtedly continue that line for at least the very beginning. That doesn’t exclude the possibility that eventually they will seek agreements and approaches like those that Senator Moreno has suggested.
CAMBIO: Do you think that when all the paths are closed off, the United States would consider a military intervention in Venezuela
D.G.: I don’t think so. Right now the possibility of military intervention is simply unsustainable. The North American military themselves oppose it, and you can say a lot of things about President-elect Trump, but he has been very critical of what he calls “the eternal wars”.
CAMBIO: But ex-President Uribe proposed it as an option. The only thing left . . .
D.G.: Well, he has the right to make proposals, but there’s no possibility that that has any future.
CAMBIO: What are the fundamental issues in the relationship between Colombia and the United States that you hope to put forward?
D.G.: The United States is Colombia’s principal trading partner. It’s the country that buys the most from us and from which we buy the most. The challenge is to continue that commerce, but at the same time to amplify its benefits to the historically forgotten sectors in the Colombian countryside: to the “deep Colombia”, as Luis Gilberto Murillo calls it. Meaning that those regions have not been part of development where they could have access to the United States markets. There’s also the subjects of climate change and energy transition, aspects that are key for our country and we have been working on those with the current administration of President Biden. We know that Trump has a different position, very critical of President Biden’s, but it’s true that there could be approaches and some congruences. Colombia has proposed that we turn toward requiring investment in United States technology and North American companies that could help us with our energy transition, modernize our transportation in the direction of electric mobility. All in all, there is a great opportunity for Colombia and the United States to continue their business relationships in ways that would benefit our country’s needs, but also benefit the United States. And finally, there is a matter that continues to be fundamental: security. Right now, the threats from transnational crime make that more and more into a regional and hemispheric issue in which Colombia plays a significant role.
For example, thanks to the assistance of the United States, Colombia’s police have been working with those of neighboring countries, training different police forces in Central America, South America, and the Caribbean. Colombia is seen by the United States as a strategic ally.
On another point, there are nearly three million Colombians that live in the United States; the great majority entered legally and are contributing to North American society. In fact, there are two Senators of Colombian origin who were chosen in the recent elections: Senator Bernie Moreno of Ohio and Ruben Gallego of Arizona.
A record number of North Americans are also traveling to Colombia. Last year there was a record-breaking number of tourists, so that there is a people-to-people relationship, with a lot of exchange of ideas, so that our connection will not just continue, it will be strengthened.
CAMBIO: President Trump appointed an Ambassador to Colombia who in his career has seemed to emphasize the war on drug trafficking. Are we going to “narcotize” the bilateral relationship?
D.G.: No. In fact, Daniel Newlin is a good person who understands security since being a Sheriff in Orlando, and that is very reassuring because he understands the multidimensional risks and threats in that sector. Besides that, he’s a man that’s familiar with Colombia, has been in the country, and even has a farm here. He knows that this is a country that’s favorable to trade, and because of that, we think he will be an important ally on this issue. And also on the matter of narcotics, it’s interesting to see the way we have been developing in the relationship with the United States. Both countries have realized that the policies of the past are not working. The only thing that forced eradication with glyphosate does is transfer the plantings from one place to another, and the rate of replanting has been immense, and the campesinos, when all is said and done, are damaged the most by those policies that don’t even tickle the drug business one bit. We have been evolving toward a policy that concentrates on opposing the criminal organizations, and the proof is that last year we seized 840 tons of cocaine, a historic record and 100 tons more than were seized the year before that. And these blows are far more damaging than forced eradication and we have done that while staying in touch with the United States.
That’s the way we plan to continue working together with the United States to increase those record numbers, while also realizing that now the drug trafficking organizations have diversified into other criminal activities like illegal mining and human trafficking—as in the Clan del Golfo and the Tren de Aragua—cases in which the authorities have fought together with the United States.
CAMBIO: But the number of hectares planted in coca has increased enormously . . .
D.G.: Not enormously. The curve does continue to rise, but in fact, in 2024 we saw the lowest increase in recent years and with the programs that are going on right now, we will see that in 2025 we will begin to see a slight reduction. We’re not talking about big numbers, but we will definitely see a small drop, because these programs take time. We’re confident that we’re headed in the right direction, realizing that offering opportunities to the campesinos is the only way to keep the coca plantings from increasing. Besides that, what we have learned is that you can’t measure the success of the war on drug trafficking exclusively by the number of hectares planted in coca. That was the past. And the certification by the United States this last time was not only important for the fact that we obtained it, but also because they recognized the new metrics, new ways of assessing the success or failure of the antidrug policy in which Colombia is showing record statistics.
CAMBIO: How is United States aid to Colombia going, especially in the Congress. Has it been reduced?
D.G.: No. In the year before last, there was a reduction, in general terms, in all United States foreign aid. And now there’s still a lot of pressure in the United States to reduce foreign aid, and not just in relation to Colombia. In fact, in the recent debates that took place in the Senate, this country’s name was not even mentioned; they were talking mostly about Ukraine, Gaza, and other parts of the world. What we’ve seen in recent times is that, although there are proposals to cut back, at the moment of truth, it’s been possible to maintain assistance at historically stable levels. The recent measure passed in December, was what they call here a “continuing resolution”, which means continuing existing levels of financing until March, when they will go back to taking up the subject of foreign assistance.*[1]
CAMBIO: Trump’s announcements about a supposed intervention by the United States in Panama to restore possession of the canal, in which Colombia has rights, has resulted in rejection by a lot of countries. Do you think a North American intervention in the Isthmus is possible?
D.G.: Curiously, at former President Jimmy Carter’s funeral, I had the opportunity to attend, along with several Ambassadors from Latin America, and one of them said, “Well, the only thing he’s achieved with that declaration is to unite us with everybody. Administrations of the left and of the right. Everybody in Latin America feels united with Panama.” What Trump said was part of a series of declarations that he made, but at bottom, there’s not much likelihood that any will succeed. In fact, several Republican Members of Congress have also told me that they had told President Trump that that notion is not possible, because Panama maintains a very important relationship with the United States.
CAMBIO: President Petro has said that he would like to renegotiate the North American Free Trade Agreement with Trump. President Santos has warned him not do that because the “Magnate” could tear off his hand and obtain additional advantages that would prejudice the benefits that Colombia currently has. What do you think about that?
D.G.: The renegotiation of a free trade agreement is not that simple. It requires the approval of both Congresses and that is highly unlikely to succeed. In the first place, the TLC is not on President Trump’s idea list right now. On the contrary, what he has said is that he is reviewing the treaties that are unfavorable to the United States. What we know is that the trade balance is favorable to the United States and against Colombia. So, neither will there much disposition on the part of the United States for revision of the treaty. What we do know, and, in effect, the President has insisted on this frequently, is that he has been working on that within the TLC to establish mechanisms for revision, for analyzing specific aspects, because a long time has passed since the treaty was approved. We have to look it over and analyze some of its aspects. There are elements that we think should be strengthened, like the possibility of access by Colombian products to North American markets. We are working on a revision within the framework of the treaty in a very judicious manner.
CAMBIO: In an article for CAMBIO, former Foreign Minister Julio Londoño reported that Trump, in an announcement he had made about his desires to annex Panama, Canada, and Greenland to the United States, would be returning to the North American expansionist epoch, and of President Theodore Roosevelt’s “big stick” that flooded the continent with military interventions. Londoño adds that a new era is coming, and that, as they tell you in the airplane, we have to prepare to tighten our seatbelts. Have you tightened your seatbelt yet?
D.G.: I tightened it a long time ago. I always read former Foreign Minister Londoño’s statements with great care. I respect him a great deal and I think he’s right in that, in effect, the declarations that were made relative to Greenland, Panama, and Canada were part of a pattern that has characterized the President-elect, but at the moment of truth, there is little possibility that they will happen. Even though they make us nervous, and not just in Colombia, they are the somewhat unpredictable aspects of the incoming administration.
CAMBIO: He also said that he wants to change the name of the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America. . .
D.G.: And the President of Mexico said that they ought to change the name of the United States to recall that there was a time when the majority of its territory was Mexican. What we can’t lose sight of is that in international politics, and referring to Colombia and the United States in particular, there is an institutional relationship that goes much further than the words of the Presidents.
CAMBIO: Will you be attending Trump’s inauguration tomorrow, January 20? Will the Foreign Minister be attending?
D.G.: No, he won’t attend. I’m going. The invitations were to the Chiefs of Mission here in Washington, and we are the Ambassadors accredited here who are empowered to represent our countries.
CAMBIO: What is the protocol? Do you have to wear a a tailcoat?
D.G. You have to go with a winter jacket and cap, because it’s outdoors. According to the weather forecasts, it’s going to be below zero. So you have to put on gloves and a scarf to withstand the cold.
CAMBIO: How did your reconciliation with Petro go? Because when you left the Mayor’s Office, in your letter of resignation, that began with “Dear Gustavo”, you used a phrase that made history. “A leftist despot, because of being leftist, won’t stop being a despot.” A tremendous phrase! How did that reconciliation go?
D.G.: That was so long ago it seems like ancient history. But far beyond anything, the fact that the President called me to offer me the appointment as Ambassador here in Washington, is a clear demonstration that that kind of thing is part of the past, and that we understand that we’re living in a new time. I accepted for one simple reason and that is that I agree with President Petro in his foreign policy initiatives. I know how important the people of Colombia are to the United States, and that my working relationship with the President has been very fluid and fruitful. And the truth is that I had forgotten about that incident; it was more just an anecdote than anything else, but it shows the grace of a President who was thinking about something different.
CAMBIO: What do you think can be done about Venezuela? Maduro was inaugurated without showing the election records that Colombia had asked to see.
D.G.: Colombia’s position, which has been criticized through and through, continues to be correct and was absolutely coherent from the start. This country played a very important role as always, by mediation, by accompaniment, in the proceedings of the Barbados Accords. On the one hand, we have a neighbor with whom we share a vibrant and active border. What we cannot do is close the border, break relations, close the consulates. That has definitely not worked. What’s true is that President Petro’s proposal for seeking an agreement of the two parties in Venezuela, between Venezuelans, remains in effect. Is it unworkable? Well, that’s part of the discussion. If for some reason Nicolás Maduro would say tomorrow, ‘OK, I’m going to turn power over to Edmundo González’, or in the case that they reach an agreement with Mr. Trump to maintain him in power, there would still need to be an agreement between Venezuela’s two parties, between the government and the opposition, and Colombia’s position that has been clear. In fact, it’s my job here in Washington to maintain a very fluid dialog with Venezuela’s opposition, and I have met on several occasions with their top leaders and in all the meetings, and they always say to us, ‘Thanks for your work, Colombia’. Now, if I’m asking myself what’s going to happen in Venezuela, well, I don’t have a crystal ball. It’s a very critical situation, and the issue is human rights, and the repression of the opposition concerns us very deeply. President Petro’s administration and Foreign Minister Murillo have been very direct in condemning these attacks. But we also have to recognize that this is a nation-to-nation relationship, and this not about something we like or don’t like; it’s a matter of commerce, consulates, and the security that we have to maintain.
CAMBIO: In an interview that former President Santos gave to María Jimena Duzán at the opening of the CAMBIO Forum, called “National Perspectives”, he used a phrase that was very interesting, something like that, with Trump we can negotiate and suggest to him that we could help control illegal immigration through the Darién, and that he could help us control the gangs. Do you think that in the case of Venezuela a negotiation would be possible between Trump and Maduro to facilitate a “dignified” exit or at least a safe one?
D.G.: Yes, I do. There is a very broad range of possibilities. Right now, I wouldn’t dare predict what would be the direction things will go in Venezuela. But President Santos is right about something that’s fundamental for Colombia. A few days ago, the Minister of Environment, Susana Muhamad, was here, along with the Ministers of Finance, of Mines, and of Transportation, and the Director of DAPRE (Administrative Department of the Presidency). They were presenting the platform “The Country”. It’s a package of portfolios to help with the energy transition. And we got together with the one who is going to be Trump’s aide on the issue of the environment, Ed Russo. He had a very interesting relationship with the Minister of Environment who obviously has her positions with regard to petroleum. Russo said, “Look, the Trump administration wants to work on very specific things, like clean water.” And Susana immediately answered, “Good, let’s work on that. We have environmental cleanup and treatment projects and thus we can continue to work on specific things.” Russo also said he was tired of so many meetings, seminars, and conferences, and we need concrete and real actions. And our Minister of Environment said: “We agree. We have spent a lot of time on meetings and forums. We need some specific things.” So there’s an issue where it looks as if Trump and Petro are in two different worlds on the subject of climate change, but we’re already finding things that are very concrete, where we can work with the United States. That could also be an opportunity, and my task and ours as a country is to look for those opportunities.
CAMBIO: OK, Mr. Ambassador, many thanks for this interview and as ex-Foreign Minister Londoño has said, get ready and tighten your seatbelt.
[1] President Trump has issued an order stopping foreign aid for a period. https://www.elespectador.com/mundo/america/estados-unidos-suspende-recursos-de-asistencia-colombia-estaria-entre-los-afectados-noticias-de-hoy/